14c28n steel vs d2 14c28n steel vs d2

We and our partners use cookies to Store and/or access information on a device. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. . Theyre excellent for choppers, hard-use folders, and outdoor knives that see impacts and heavy use when used at medium hardness. But as the market has grown and newer steels have come out, it has fallen in price and prestige. Micarta The most balanced is CPM-MagnaCut which is in an area all by itself on the chart. Do honing steels as used on kitchen knives actually do anything useful? Below shows Vanax tempered at 400F on the left and 1000F on the right after 1% saltwater for 24 hours: There are many other ways in which knife steel performance can be reduced through heat treatment but I cant cover them all in this article so hopefully these illustrative examples will be enough. The excellent corrosion resistance properties of 14C28N are attributed to the high amounts of chromium in its composition. 14c28n vs D2 Steel. INFI is also quite hard and sharpens easily. I just want to thank you for all the work you do for the community and the world at large. This is a bit of a guess because I cant find un-notched Charpy data on it. D2 is a tool steel used in industrial settings. Read our full Sobata 398 review here. Editors note: This article was first published in May 2015 and was most recently updated on May 25, 2020. Spyderco and Cold Steel have used it, though Cold Steel recently switched to S35VN due to availability concerns. Some steels are more difficult to manufacture for the steel company or have more expensive alloying elements so the cost is increased. Without any confusion, you can purchase this set that has a slim, versatile, modified drip-point blade with good slicing capabilities. Softer steel usually forms larger burrs and they are more difficult to deburr. grivory It gets exceptionally sharp, a nod to its origins as a razorblade steel. If you want to check the quality of my work, just search for The EDC Bible on Amazon. D2 has a relatively high amount of carbon in its composition (1.55%), more than twice as much as AEB-L (0.68%), but most of that carbon goes into making chromium carbides instead of into solution in the steel matrix, leaving D2 with only ~0.5% C in solution and very large carbides that are good for wear resistance but bad for toughness. But if when youre searching for tough steel for your outdoor experience camping, or hunting, it would be perfect steel but not the best choice therere other steels with better than toughness that would suit your usage. (I think the 420HC estimate in that post was based on simulation or computer modeling, since you didnt spray testing any of the 400 series.) https://knifesteelnerds.com/2018/12/17/cryogenic-processing-of-steel-part-3/. This grade can be treated cryogenically to improve edge retention. Heat treatment refers to the heating and cooling steps employed to achieve your knifes proper balance of attributes. In reality hardly difference. compare different heat treats of the same component, it lacks a theoretical foundation and its not clear how to relate it to the real world. Diving into the pool of knife personalization possibilities is a fantastic way to fend off the post-knife-buy blues. CPM 4V For example, the Si space is blank for several of the carbon steels because they have a relatively wide acceptable range, not because the element isnt added. it seems like all the pieces are in place to develop an algorithm for this. at least it has some vanadium over the 420hc. I dipped each in lemon juice and left in open air and tested after 30, 100, and 300 minutes, dipping in lemon juice again each time. Perhaps a bigger issue with the upper temper is for stainless steels, as there is a significant reduction in corrosion resistance by tempering at 1000F instead of 400F. its like with cars, most of them are not a corvette or a porsche. what does a cvn of 40 v.s 20 mean? It is most useful for steels with large amounts of carbide but also helps to be able to add certain carbide types. A hunting knife has a singlepurpose: processing meat after akill. EDGE RETENTION . Thanks in advance, Simon, For hard use everyday cutting in a packing company, Everything from fome, cardboard, tape, thick plastics, And plastic wrap that is against metal. S90V So you can estimate how much a change in hardness would affect edge retention by following the slope of those lines. BD1 isnt terribly hard but sharpens easily. This refers to the angle of your edge and the thickness of the knife behind the edge. I believe they are made of simple carbon steel. The most significant cost increase comes from powder metallurgy, used to create most of the expensive knife steels. Flashlights run the gamut of price and quality. However, it falls behind the Bohler steel in corrosion resistance. Which knife for best? The line is only in the neighborhood of 5 of the datapoints. Below shows pictures of a 61 Rc knife that was impacted with a 3/16 rod at different energy levels. Uddeholm lists it as somewhat worse in toughness than A2 but somewhat better in wear resistance. Kershaw, Spyderco and Schrade are among some of the popular users of this steel.. 14C28N. CPM 3V The highest edge retention steel was Rex 121 which was at 70 Rc in combination with lots of high hardness vanadium carbides. It mainly made for knife and it high in Chromium for excellent corrosion resistance. Fine-carbide knife steels. One of the more common stainless steels, and one readily available in lots of different places worldwide, AUS-8 is a decent all-around steel. Some steels are cooked up specifically with this in mind and are very difficult to make rust. Phone Hours (MST) They have many similarities, including their high hardness, strength, and wear resistance. For the steels that I rated I give them a single rating rather than a range based on different heat treatments that can be performed. Ive not seen these used on non-kitchen knives, though, and it seems that if they had real utility they would be used in other knives as well although perhaps on the thinner edges of kitchen knives they are more effective than they would be elsewhere? Both knives were chopped through a nail. D2. This is good for ease in heat treating in large batches and for even cooling that greatly reduces warping and size changes. When the blade gets messed up I just replace it. So we get back to my original question: if a D2 planer blade at 58 Rc and the associated level of toughness will perform acceptably with a 30 sharpening angle, is there some way to extrapolate at what sharpening angle another steel with higher toughness might perform equally well? Therefore, if your priority is a knife with the best toughness on the market, you can never go wrong with the varieties of 14C28N. 14c28n vs. AUS-8 Steel So presumably, wear resistance would be in the 3.5-4 range and toughness in the 5.5-6 range. Deburring of edges often takes even longer than removing material to produce the edge. Different heat treats have emerged over the years, but one has risen to the top as the best:Bob Doziers D2. What it is: 14C28N is a Sandvik stainless steel commonly used in razors and kitchen knives. Its a good balance between all three attributes, being relatively hard, tough, and corrosion-resistant. That way you can get into the steel ratings quickly. Knife steel nerds have a great write up on 14c28n nik_was 2 yr. ago Read more about how it works here. Wear resistance, be it high or low, is the most significant determining factor in ease of sharpening. Edge retention often refers to the ability of a knifes edge to maintain its sharpness during use. I test corrosion resistance of steels by heat treating 1 x 1.5 inch coupons, finishing to about 400 grit, and then spraying with water. Both steel types don't chip easily, but 14c28n steel is easier to sharpen. how much more can you bend/pry with it? Though technically not a stainless steel due to its composition, in use it performs exactly like one. It had better than expected corrosion resistance due to the lack of chromium carbides, a behavior also seen in MagnaCut. An example of data being processed may be a unique identifier stored in a cookie. Very much appreciate you. most knives are being made out of these and other mediocre steels like 14c28n, 420j2, 425m. https://knifesteelnerds.com/2018/12/10/cryogenic-processing-of-steel-part-2/ Very obtuse edges resist chipping better but dont hold their edge as long and dont cut as well. I especially appreciate the geometry/edge retention/toughness comparison with photos. In other words, Rex 121 would be the most difficult to sharpen and 5160 and 8670 would be the easiest. . There is no single category that means that a steel is more premium or better than another. If you're stuck between 14C28N and 440C, here's a breakdown of the pros and cons of each type of steel. LC200N 440A has more chromium in solution along with a small addition of Mo, but has significant amounts of carbide so the two are an interesting comparison. Its called memory metal because heat can get it to revert back to a previous shape. Its not a particularly great cutter, being poor at retaining an edge. Sharpening the knives might be challenging, but the D2 knife is high quality and affordable. This is an American-made powder steel. You will get an ultra-sharp edge with 14C28N knives. You cannot leave your 14C28N knives in water overnight and expect them not to rust. More expensive powder metallurgy steels in this category include M390, CPM-S35VN, Elmax, CTS-XHP, CPM-S30V, and CPM-154. Sandvik later came out with 14C28N which is a slightly improved version of 13C26. Other factors include how thick your edge is, how dull your knife was at the start, the nature of the heat treatment, and what youre using to sharpen your knife. FRN Despite its age, its a truly superior steel. The best knife for you should meet your needs and fit your budget. By that I dont mean that a better heat treatment is not possible, but that major mistakes in heat treating are avoided. Elmax 14C28N knives are easier to sharpen than D2 knives. D2 knives offer higher edge retention than 14C28N knives, which is attributed to the high carbon elements and hardness of D2. . Properties: 14C28N: D2: Edge retention: 4/10: 7/10: Ease of sharpening: 6/10: 3/10: Corrosion resistance: 4/10: 4/10: Toughness: 6/10: 6/10: CIVIVI Knives Elementum Folding Pocket Knife 2.96" D2 Satin Blade . I guess that was before I started reading. A quick check shows the compositions of these steels are nearly identical, so based on that Id expect them to perform similarly (differences in heat treat and blade geometry aside). 420HC doesnt hold an edge well, but its relatively stain-resistant and tough. High wear resistance is not particularly necessary when only performing chopping, and its good ease in sharpening helps when having to restore the edges. Where the black-finished 1.4116 version has a simple, full flat grind, the D2 version has a compound flat grind that ends halfway up the blade's height. Its an anomaly in the knife world and quite puzzling to use. Carpenter produces this powder steel. the more complex fracture toughness at least lets you make some estimates in this sence. H1 and 420 also have excellent corrosion resistance but are limited to lower hardness and edge retention. D2 is another medium-range tool steel. Diamond and CBN stones make sharpening those steels easier. Even premium steels can have poor performance with poor heat treatment. Is this at the same hardness? Spyderco is the only production company using this steel, though Michael Gavik of Gavko knives produced a number of customs in LC 200N. Also, if you want a fishing knife, 14c28n steel will survive better in wet areas than D2. Thank you for putting this together, incredibly useful! The Sandvik 14C28N has a very thin and sharp blade that is perfect for slicing through things. So for most steels they are given a rating at around 59-62 Rc, apart from a few steels that are never used at that hardness. A few steels have been added since such as MagnaCut and M398. And only Vanax and LC200N have been free from corrosion with a 3.5% saltwater solution, though MagnaCut was close. Obviously Ill let you check the manuscript prior to publication. I know that one does not normally make knife blades of titanium, but I gather that Ti is extremely corrosion resistant, used for saltwater applications, etc. These steels are the good old hard-working steels. 52100 and CruForgeV are good for general purpose knives. What carbon/tool steel would you choose for a survival knife if a PM steel was too expensive? Im a layman trying to understand what makes the best steel for my use. does 1.4116 deserve the title of title of ultimate trash steel? But yes, I would assume that the general performance would still be relatively similar between them without evidence to the contrary. Thanks. 14C28N knives will handle challenging and demanding applications without chipping, cracking, or breaking. MagnaCut Why wouldnt it be possible to make a damascus steel out of (say) AEB-L and s90V, or wouldnt that gain the best of both? My name is Jonathan M, and Im a passionate Mechanical Engineer, a knife enthusiast, and the author of this website. Spyderco has their own salt spray test setup to determine the corrosion resistance and they determined that MagnaCut is sufficiently corrosion resistant for their salt series of knives. . Most low alloy tool steels and carbon steels also have fine carbide structures without powder metallurgy processing. However the 14c28n steel would be great for an EDC knife with typical usage. 14C28N steel is not very hard steel which makes it easier to sharpen. 14C28N The reason is because sharpening and edge geometry will also greatly control properties. Most vintage tool blades seem to have been made of 1084/1095 or similar, presumably at some <60 Rc hardness that gave the required toughness, and the rules of thumb for sharpening angles are based on those assumptions. The ultra high corrosion resistance steels Vanax or LC200N max out around 60-61 Rc instead. However, there are other factors. As of November 2020, this is Spyderco-exclusive steel. n690 The ratings I have are for an optimal heat treatment. Or even if they try to be more open to importance of toughness, the good reputation of the high edge retention steels means that they get inflated toughness ratings along with it. But among the steels youll find at Cabelas and the like, this is a pretty good choice. Both knives come at an affordable price for high-end knives. If the steel is overheated in austenitizing, very large reductions in toughness are possible. Im looking forward to seeing if it does as well in full production. However, to choose the best knife for you must consider all the properties, including toughness, edge retention, corrosion resistance, and ease of sharpening. Generally seen as a slight upgrade to the 440C/VG-10/ATS-34 caliber of steel, its a decent all-around steel with good corrosion resistance, decent toughness, and only modest hardness. https://www.patreon.com/Knifesteelnerds, Click to share on Twitter (Opens in new window), Click to share on Facebook (Opens in new window). At the end of the article I gave a list of reasons why I hadnt made my own ratings chart, two big reasons were: 1) I didnt yet have articles explaining what edge retention and toughness even is (this was early on in Knife Steel Nerds), 2) I didnt have good experimental numbers on many steels. For these reasons D2 steel is a good for smaller folding knives, but is not ideal for large fixed blades such as dedicated choppers and large survival knives. It is among the steel knives with exceptional toughness while maintaining excellent corrosion resistance. It is among the best steel that will offer exceptional toughness while still maintaining excellent corrosion resistance. quite possibly the best steel youll find on a sub-$30 production knife. You cant look at only the chromium content of the steel to know the level of corrosion resistance. In my experience, it will tarnish and discolor quickly. The 1.4116 I tested has large carbides in it which is presumably the reason for low measured toughness: https://knifesteelnerds.com/2019/05/26/new-micrographs-of-42-knife-steels/. I personally don`t care about stainless (sic! I was thinking maybe Sleipner or A2 would be best if a PM steel was out. 14C28N and D2 knives are affordable high-end knives. Thanks for the Article Larrin, Theres still a lot of misinformation being pushed by influencers especially in knife steel rankings. 8am-5pm Saturday. Hammering through hickory, digging at roots in sandy soil, and cutting around bone did nothing to chip, dent, or roll the edge of my 3V knives. HAP40 1) the cvn number is just that, a number. ZDP-189 can tarnish, though not as easily as 3V. There has been some internet controversy over the grinding and heat treat of this steel. This is the basis on which I do the ratings rather than a linear scale. CPM-S90V is my favorite in the high edge retention category because of its decent toughness. Oh, thats great, thanks. As with high alloy tool steels, the amount of vanadium can be a shortcut to predicting the general level of wear resistance and edge retention. Ruike Sandvik 14c28n vs D2 looking at getting a nice larger flipper for a little under 100 AUD. CTS-204P and CPM-20CV are nearly identical steels made by other manufacturers. Sure if you dont want stainless steel fine, but there are plenty other carbon steels out there much better than 5160. This is to keep the focus on the elements that are making the biggest difference. Thats why it easy to work and looks nice. Later, it gets heated and compressed into one ingot. So what is the best steel for knives? just recently the idea occured tome to sharpen a planer blade like a knife and check out how it performs. Each test is done with 3 or more specimens to get a good average. 14C28N vs. D2. I was struggling to simplify all the Rockwell/Youngs Modulus stuff for readers when I came across your site. But if you want to know what the coolest blade material is, for my money, SM100is it. Due to its higher Chromium content, S30v is a lot less likely to corrode/rust than the D2 Steel. Lately Ive been edcing one of those instead of a nice folder. Hello everyone I've been loking into twosun knives recently. For example, D2 has enough chromium to be stainless (~12%) but its high carbon means that too much chromium carbide is formed to leave enough chromium for stainless levels of corrosion resistance. Chris Reeves version, which is about two points less hard than others, is quite good. . most knives are being made out of these and other mediocre steels like 14c28n, 420j2, 425m. For more information see our. rex 121 14c28n steel and D2 steel are both high-quality knife steels. Fix-It Sticks Compact Ratcheting Multi-Tool Review, Toughness, Wear Resistance, Corrosion Resistance. Its very similar chemically to RWL 34 and ATS-34. rust resistance.Best of all most knives made from this steel can be had for well under $75.In my opinion Sandvik 14c28n is a better overall steel than that of Aus8,420hc,or ANY of the . Crucible intends SPY27 to be good all-around knife steel. This guide explains important features to consider when buying a new knife for the outdoors. However, I would argue that pure material removal is usually not the limiting step for ease in sharpening. This isnt exactly how steel works; different properties are difficult to increase without affecting something else. However, high wear resistance means that abrasives are used up more rapidly, more careful grinding is necessary to avoid overheating, finishing and polishing is much more time consuming, etc. But in use, Ive found nothing that withstands the abuse that 3V can take. while its a very intuitive method and a simple way to e.g. I always thought VG10 to be way more chippy/less tough compared cpms45vn. The choice between the two depends on your knife needs. Because of its difficulty in sharpening and machining, its very rarely used and comes with a high price premium. That says to me theres a measurable abrasive quality to wood for sure. Thanks again for everything you're doing, it's a tremendous resource. Not impractical fantasy knives, but these two knives that have a col look to them. It confirms what I always suspected and what anyone could have figured out by reading the technical data. It mainly made for knife and it high in Chromium for excellent corrosion resistance. On the other hand, these types of steel provide high wear resistance and toughness.