msb discrete dac vs chord dave msb discrete dac vs chord dave

With a better matched preamp presence may be acceptable. Up to 32 bit 768kHz Just go for an internal Asus card to fit in a PCI slot you should be able to get bit perfect optical output thanks for confirming suitability of current setup. The in-house discrete design is then constructed into its own shielded CNC pocket for optimal isolation. Australian Business Number 38 650 151 296, Digital Sources, DACs, and Computer Audio, Chord Dave vs Mola Mola Makua/Tambaqui vs Emm Labs Dac2x vs Rockna Wavedream. There is scale on bigger productions and intimacy on smaller-scale recordings and pieces, It wont make a pigs ear into a sows purse, but its majestic on really good recordings, Its very detailed but not harshly so actually, its a very easy component to fit in a system and live with, Its not cheap and you will want both PSUs once you compare with just one, No analogue inputs to make it the heart of a full system, You know that MSB have stuff that is out of reach financially and potentially better, Price: 11,000 plus 1,650 for a second power supply. Thanks for the interesting reply, cmarin. See what the reviews are saying. November 11, 2020 in Digital Sources, DACs, and Computer Audio. It's just more financially viable to me for the performance and price ratio. This all-American theme is continued in the companys PCB Shop where they use circuit boards produced for them in Silicon Valley, which are then made ready for the automated adding of the smaller components and hand-fitting bulkier components before washing and inspection. Our digital testing has been done over the last 20 + years This effect was evident on track after track but didnt feel like it was overly exaggerated. Mola Mola is another well built great sounding I have heard a lot of top DACs at shows or other systems but not in my own. The DAC comes equipped with a single power supply, but can be augmented with a second discrete power supply to enable optimized power isolation between all major components. Can it output a Low or High Voltage on a single pin in a bitstream? But in the specific case of the BADA and PM2, if you wish for me to be more precise, then taking into account that I only had the BADA ref for a very short time, the bottom line was that I didn't feel at the time that the difference between the PM2 in my system was significant enough to make it worth the energy to change components or the potential financial loss involved in a trade. The only thing that I'd really like to see added here is an Aries Cerat. The other issue is preference. In that price range, you would be mad not to addthe MSB Premier DAC to your list as well. Also, it is worth noting I heard the v1 DAC 2X, not the v2. Now to include the HMS. dCS Bartok>Chord DAVE>MSB discrete discreteR2R R2R DAVE BartokdCSBartok Thank you all for your answers. The MSB Discrete, as I mentioned, came with two power supplies but you can operate it with just one with the supplied doodad. 2 DAC | Audionet Pre G2 preamp | Audionet Max mono blocks | Vivid Audio Giya G2 Series 2 | 4 JL Audio Fathoms | Echole ICs /SCs / Siltech Classic 550L jumpers, Shunyata PCs / Eth. conversation. Astrostar here, said it completely blew away any dac he had before, and mind you, he has the entry level AC model. Rori is definitely welcome. Although I would like to keep this as close to $10-12K as possible. Besides that the MSB looks so much better. and the MSB Select II has a huge advantage over other dacs with its modularity and in-house development which promotes, in a very timely way, keeping the product at the very tip top cutting edge of digital interface developments. It was a speaker setup (as in my signature.) Anyway, the MSB Discrete is a machine that I consider to be highly resolving and a true HiFi product with regard to the definition I quoted above. ISOAcoustics Oreas footers. I don't have that kind of money. Vega DAC 6/10 As dynamic as the Weiss, but a little too edgy in sound emphasised presence made female voices a bit hard on the ear. But then we have to apply the law of diminishing returns. Everyone hears differentlyI heard the Dave with the Blu and I prefer it without it. I recently bought a DAC with a digital volume control precisely to bypass the preamp, but when I compared the two approaches there was very little between them. One of the things I jotted down in my notes during this time was the sense of scale the Discrete brought to the music I was listening to big music sounded BIG and more intimate recordings had their own scale too. You absolutely can say that you prefer other DAC's to the Berkeley Alpha Reference. Mike, Scott has been absolutely wonderful in his support, despite my purchasing the Found-Music 2A3s used (from Art S.) He has visited once and is planning another visit after the trip your way. state his/her experience and preferences. $16K Signature DAC sound? Whether its a software update or a leading-edge modular component, were here to help the most valued aspect of MSBour customers. Fixed. It will kick your ass. And this is where I had a problem with this DAC, though mostly the problem was of my own making. Of the ones you mentioned I'd be most tempted by the Emm Labs DAC 2x though if you can get a used higher-end Esoteric, you should jump on it. It is worth every penny. Get a Lampi Golden Gate Dac and match it with the RK5u4g rectifier and PX25 DHTs or the RK242 DHT. JavaScript is disabled. Regardless if the buyer has never auditioned the unit, and found it corresponding to, Simaudio Moon Neo 260 DT CD Transport / Empirical Audio reclocking system: Synchro-Mesh Reclocker driven by Dynamo Linear Power Supply, 2 x Reference BNC digital cable / Schiit Yggdrasil Less is More (LIM) DAC / Octave HP 700 preamp / Octave RE 320 stereo amp with Super Black Box / Reference 3A Reflector monitors, on Sound Anchors Signature stands / dual JL Audio Fathom 112 v2 subwoofers / Cables: ZenWave Audio D4 interconnects, ZenWave SMSG speaker cables / Diverse Herbie's Audio Lab footers / Acoustic treatment: Tri-panels, window plugs, ceiling diffusers (all ASC), diverse carpets chosen for acoustic properties (wool, polypropylene basketweave), Sure absolutely agree that paying that much money without auditioning (preferably in my house, with my own equipment, in my room) does not make much sense. Like the rest of the DACs in the MSB range, the Select DAC is modular in its architecture with each of the modules being produced in house, as outlined above. It's better than the MSB Analog I listened to. will every hear. I can only comment on the Emm labs, if u can get a DA2 I think you will be happy "An audiophile is only done when they go to the great brick and mortar store in the sky" Ron Resnick in this forum and they are all very good dacs. Conversely, you could spend a lot more and not gain a great deal in real terms. Digital Audio Forum: DAC, Transports, Digital Processing Forum, 4x20A circuits | Audioquest Niagara 3000 | Paul Hynes SR4T + HDPlex HD500 PSUs -> Music PC w/JCAT XE nic, HQPlayer, Roon, Tidal / Qobuz | HDPlex HD100 PSU -> OCX clock + EtherRegen | Aqua Acoustic Quality LinQ streamer | Aqua Acoustic Quality Formula xHD Rev. heard, I could easily live with the Aeris, Dave, or Wavedream. So yes it's a question of being polite, but it's also about acknowledging the limitations inherent in making absolute pronouncements about differences between high performing components. SoundLab A1Px's, ARC REF40, VTL Siegfired II, cj GAT2, cj ART, DCS Vivaldi 2.0 stack, Taiko Audio SGM Extreme, TechDas AF1+ , Graham Phamtom III, Sumiko Palo Santos, vdH Black Beauty, ARC Phono 3, Studer A80, Crystal Dreamline, Transparent Audio Ref XL digital and Ref Gen V power cables, CenterStage footers, Nordost Qkore6' s and QB8's! This very pleasant sound I was experiencing, it could be argued, was to a large degree down to the choice of amplifier and what that added to the mix, and I do think this is a valid argument. I found it big bold brash and dynamic but hard cold glary and fatiguing - all the old fashioned things I hated about early digital. MSB DACs also use a processing chip to handle oversampling and digital filtering (not sure if this chip is an FPGA or other type processing chip, but it is a high speed digital processing chip). @ricred1, youre right to point that out. It is a manual step which I forgot. Others might disagree but these are my findings. I auditioned a DAVE (not deconstructed) and TT2 and found all Chord products lacked the musicality of MSB. had if for 2 years now. I'd also look at the Mola-Mola Tambaqui and the new dCS Bartok. If I got a great $20K DAC for less, I would not object. And what streamer are you using to feed the DAC? Did I mention the remote is perfect? The world's largest high-end audio community. It could sound analytical or hot coupled with bright combination of speaker and amplifier. The end result is a digital experience defying expectations. Thats not allthe CNC unibody aluminum chassis provides the discrete power supply with optimal thermal performance and an elegant design aesthetic. You go off people's opinions and hope it'll match your equipment and system when you put the hard earned down. One name that was thrown around by a few people I know is the Rockna Wavedream. By In that time, weve pushed the industry forward with each product weve built, redefining whats possible. Sit back and be immersed. and this is borne out in the sound that this DAC brings to the party. There hasn't been any direct comparison of them with Select II, Trinity DAC, CH D1/C1, Totaldac D12 etc in Hong Kong yet. I agree price is necessarily indicative of quality or performance. "Im not sure if there are algorithms that can add high-frequency information that wasnt captured in the original sampled result". Since this forum is mainly USA based and we are in the UK, I have very little to gain business wise here. The more observant of you will have read this and noticed that there is no mains inlet. This is how MSB describe these modules: Its best to think of our DAC modules as a black box: the modules take the raw digital data in and output a continuous voltage. You are using an out of date browser. For some folk, a highly resolving and accurate system may well be described as being over-analytical, and on the other side of the audio fence, some will suggest that some systems sound nice but flawed. So, essentially, around the back of this DAC we have XLR output modules, dual power inputs (more on this in a moment) the digital input module (XLR, RCA, and two optical), and the USB input. Dedicated Line DSD/DXD | Audirvana+ | iFi iDSD Nano | SET Tube Amp | Totem Mites, Surround: VLC | M-Audio FastTrack Pro | Mac Opt | Panasonic SA-HE100 | Logitech Z623, DIY: SET Tube Amp | Low-Noise Linear Regulated Power Supply | USB, Power, Speaker Cables | Speaker Stands | Acoustic Panels, You need to be a member in order to leave a comment. The best upgrade for Dave easy. Much appreciated. The AC modules are fully balanced at every stage, have no buffers, IV converters, or transistors in the signal path, and have no active devices used in the conversion process at all. It is not hard to audition these DACs in Melbourneand this is your best way to work out your own preference. This is a very odd one to describe but came to the fore on tracks like Pan Eros from World Of Drums and Percussion. This is disabled if you are outputting to a preamplifier. We feel About Chord Vs Dac Discrete Msb Dave . Now, this is an important and quite a cool lesson in what is going on with the two PSUs. Stainless steel buttons arrayed around an elegant volume wheel to optimize performance and response. I have the Berkeley Alpha Reference DAC, waiting for an upgrade. Discussion in 'Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers' started by mtoc, Jun 9, 2016. I own the MSB Select II with the dual powerbases and 33 Femto Clock. digital 149728-117859 MSB select II vs all dacs ? 2 DAC | Audionet Pre G2 preamp | Audionet Max mono blocks | Vivid Audio Giya G2 Series 2 | 4 JL Audio Fathoms | Echole ICs /SCs / Siltech Classic 550L jumpers, Shunyata PCs / Eth. Many competing DACs will have a more comprehensive display at this price and, more commonly still, an app designed for intuitive access via smartphone and/or tablets. The end users ears are the only ears that count. I'm not an absolutist, and frankly, I could be happy with any of the DACs I mentioned. Firstly, that was a very impressive list of high end components you have listened to. @ricred1, I would like to suggest you take a look at the Mola Mola Tambaqui when it arrives later this month I understand. This is a review, detailed measurements and listening tests of CHORD DAVE combination DAC and headphone amplifier. MSB Discrete Dac with one additional basic power supply. It is just as important as the DAC itself. The bottom line for me is that great DACs can make a difference over good DACs. And now that my system is much more resolving, it's possible that the differences could be larger and my preferences could change. Will do. Never say never, but I reckon 99.9% of folk would get to the Discretes level of performance and not be able to justify another 110K to achieve, what I am guessing would be marginal gains though I have not experienced the Select and so cannot say for sure that this would be the case and it may be a total revelation is sonic engineering. Even at very low listening levels, it was clear that the MSB was delivering a clean analogue output to the ampand Im aware that sounds a bit vague. We await Phase 2 where all DACs are assessed using upsampled data via your Lumin U1 to establish ranking and the preferred format through each. Its not bombarding you with information, but it is a notably more defined sound with regards to the spatial information and the way that elements sit in the mix a tad more solidity and more of a sense of the stereo image being wider and deeper and with instruments and sounds occupying a definite space of their own. There are some tonal differences too, but what you prefer will depend on your other equipment and the music you like. I'm doing this off the top of my head. The USB module is completely electrically isolated and is again a standalone module capable of 32 bit#768kHz, MQA decoding and 8X DSD. I called the distributor and we went through everything again. This hobby is "highly subjective", influenced by personal feelings, tastes, or opinions; therefore you can A/B a million different components and come to a completely different conclusion on how it sounds compared to another listener. So true jr, the discrete R2R Multibit dacs like the Terminator the Holo, MSB, Total ect ect have a life and a boogie factor to the music that DS dacs lack, and yes they do show up bad recordings. There is a real sense of spectacle and scale when the MSB is in the system. Yes, definitely, as it is those extra tiny little bits of detail that adds the cherry on top of an already rather splendid slice of musical cake brought out on tracks like the audio show mainstay Keith Dont Go from Acoustic Live by Nils Lofgren. let me know when it's on, I'll make my way down if I can. Of course your opinion on sound quality is your own, and valid, but to suggest that the reason for the difference is because the Chord is an "FPGA DAC" is technically incorrect. The modular nature of the Discrete and other MSB DACs is very clever and I assume this goes a good way towards giving it such a neutral and detailed sound, where no one part is interfering with what the other is doing. Taiko Audio Extreme > Sablon Audio Reserva Elite USB2022/Sablon Audio Reserva Ethernet2020> Aqua Formula XHDV2 > Sablon Audio King Sablon Interconnects > LDR pre > PuLSar45 DC SE amp > Sablon Audio Reserva speaker cables (pigtailed) > Avantgarde Duo Omega( Duelund xover). I'm looking for suggestions on DACs I should listen to as possible replacement of my Chord Dave. Please specify coaxial S/PDiF or optical S/PDiF. Nothing was amiss. I would,however, like to say we are highly selective over the brands we represent and believe they are excellent value. You must log in or register to reply here. I agree with your statement. We can operate our current DAC modules at up to 6 MHz for PCM and up to 50 MHz for DSD. Rori I think people buy what they like. list the Rockna Wavedream Edition sounds this good, how good does their For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Im participating to both learn and make suggestions where I have experience that may help. This DAC is 11,000 and as such, it is a considerable investment to make, but I would suggest that this is not stupid money for the kind of transparency and clarity it brings. If so I'd recommend the Aqua Formula xHD and the TotalDAC d1-Seven. Check out the awards + accolades. The Hugo TT2 is intended to bridge the gap between the range topping DAVE and budget Qutest rack mounted offerings. Thanks for the suggestions Wisnon. Euphony Summus, EtherRegen, MSB Discrete. It is bested easily by DACs at $150. Stuart Smith finds out. In my assessment the Makua offered a more open and spacious sound. So I personally prefer to listen to different DACs just like I prefer to listen to analog as well as digital. The MSB simply sounded more real to my ears and offered a more convincing soundstage and tonality and all the tiny informations in the music where integrated in the musical flow whereas the DAVE simply sounded flat and not realistic to my ears and even lacked those tiny informations. JavaScript is disabled. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material (in part or in full) without express and written permission from this websites author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Also; recently MSB introduced a new interface that optimizes USB and adds fibre to reduce noise, the MSB Pro USB. The jump from Six to Seven is rather large. And yes, you can improve it more by adding nice power source and cable. The video cannot be shown. It is on kind loan from a member and costs US $14,000. Our publication is supported by its audience. Stuart Smith finds out. Too many DACs> Too many amps> Too many headphones. I hate to repeat myself, but there are no absolutes in audio, only preferences. Still, it's the way I prefer at this stage. The DACs are individually shielded and thermally-bonded and multiple units are used per channel, which MSB tells us increases performance and lowers output impedance. But dont take our word for it. The MSB simply offered more of everything and to my ears proved again that a true multi bit converter/ladder DAC is superior to delta/sigma or FPGA DACs. The I've owned a PS Audio Yeah, im thinking a post lock-down GTG is in order. The MSB simply sounded more real to my ears and offered a more convincing soundstage and tonality and all the tiny informations in the music where integrated in the musical flow whereas the DAVE simply sounded flat and not realistic to my ears and even lacked those tiny informations. When you get the chance to hear Chord DAVE, try playing files bit perfect instead of upsampling them to DSD256 with HQPlayer. I believe it comes down to Any specific reason you wanna replace the Dave? Well, you may not have heard a lot of high-end DAC's in your system, but the one's you've listed are pretty darned good. connection to the dac chip. Over the air updates will ensure that your renderer always has the latest capabilities and ultimate convenience. I could not so, after 2 years of trying, I bought it. Never use!! If you send me a dave i will happily be your 4th friend who also owns a dave. Whats Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. I listen mostly to classical music, particularly with symphonic work, I prefer DAVE to MSB. When we set out to make the MSB remote, the design was built from the ground up. I wanted to know for anyone who has heard it have you also heard a DAC that approached it in sonic performance? The Pro USB is offered as a stand alone module for users who already have an MSB DAC that is equipped with a Pro ISL input as well as a starter kit with a Pro ISL input and everything you need to get up and running. Oppo Modwright BDP-205 full mod. I've also learned that a DAC's performance will depend heavily on the music player. other dacs I have enjoyedin no particular order; I would not call this second tier; but I prefer what hear from my Select II to what Ive heard from these. How does it compare? Mola Mola dac and the Total dac. 5 other people who only have 2 things in common with our system. Actually the ChordHugo M Scaler and the Blu Mk. Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator. However, there is nothing wrong with "taking" recommendations, which help me build a list that I can use to research then find a way to audition my shortlist. There is no dark magic involved. Nice. The Discrete is a genuine high fidelity DAC and a fabulously built one to boot, add in the modular input flexibility and you have a pretty stunning product with excellent future proofing. "OK, it would be. As I said, its an odd one to describe but you do hear it as it brings a sense of rightness to rhythm tracks. Focusing on our network renderer and USB input, your audio tech will be on the cutting edge. I believe it comes down to I'm looking for suggestions on DACs I should listen to as possible replacement of my Chord Dave. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. But digital, potentially, can change things. If you currently have an MSB DAC or amplifier that you lovebut are looking to experience more from your systemplease reach out to your local dealer. In my listening tests, I could detect no attribute that made it sound special. Hope to try different formats on both DACs to see what works best in my system. those surpass any other digital choice. I would have loved if you heard them in the same system for a direct comparison. Superior conversion begins with clean and stable low-noise power. for instance, the Select II is modular (customers can easily change modules in seconds)so it has the ability to quickly modify its inputs to allow for optimization of various interfaces. Pass Labs INT-60. By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies. what Im saying is that comparing dacs also must take into account of all the interface advantages of each particular dac. Many of these were already in a shootout on Audiogon with the same requirements - has to sound stellar on 16/44.1 tracks: I agree that the DAVE plus Blu 2 is spectacular, but not in a "hi fi" sense. The only other items in the chain were the Stack streamer and a pretty well-sorted network setup. Auction bid 7 150 25 . and our ears are completely different. home system and listening for that end result. I wanted to know for anyone who has heard it have you also heard a DAC that approached it in sonic performance? For the most part, I listened to the MSB through our LAB12 and Krell KST100 amps and TotalDAC D100 speakers. Focal Utopia ~ LCD i4 ~ ETHER FLOW open/C ~ LCD-2.2/XC ~ Nighthawk ~ K10 custom ~ JH Angie, Chord mscaler // Chord TT2 // Oppo PM-1 (Artisan silver headphone cable) // Beyerdynamic DT880 600 Ohm // WAVE Stream bnc cables // Kef LS50 Meta. Equipped with high-visibility and a wide viewing angle, the display is both easy-to-read and stunning, exhibiting our love for intuitive features. That's just too money for the performance. The sonic signature is detailed and yet easy to listen to, with the Discrete bringing a sense of the recordings scale (big or small) to the listening experience. 2. Wherever I read I see unanimous praise for the MSB Select II. An FPGA does not have analog output, in the Chord DACs, VLC | M-Audio FastTrack Pro | Mac Opt | Panasonic SA-HE100 | Logitech Z623, : SET Tube Amp | Low-Noise Linear Regulated Power Supply | USB, Power, Speaker Cables | Speaker Stands | Acoustic Panels, http://igg.me/at/geekpulseaudio/x/5216671. I've tried it in my system and I don't like it. An FPGA does not have analog output, in the Chord DACs, the FPGA handles digital processing only, not conversion from digital to analog. I'll take a look, however I've heard they're on the warm side? comparing top dacs directly is a bit challenging, even if you have them both together. This latter recording gets played to death at shows, but that doesnt detract from it being a very good tune and a very good recording, though I have been known to take the piss a bit when it gets played for the tenth time in a day at audio events. Height with feet: 68 mm Weight: 8.2 kg, Accessories included: Manual Remote control Aluminum MSB USB charging cable 4 X Spikes and Cups 4 X plastic inserts Power connector splitter, MERASON FRROT DAC REVIEW The Merason Frrot DAC costing 995 isn't the first thing that comes to mind when we think of Switzerland. Good points by all. T&A Dac8 (for DSD512) or Lampi Atlantic for any native rate DSD playback. First let me preface my comments by stating that I have not heard a lot of high end DACs in my system. This one has similar sound signature to MSB Premier But it is half notch below MSB Premier on dynamics, details, soundstage. DAVE is the most advanced DAC Chord Electronics has ever made. You must log in or register to reply here. I think my DAVE sounds great with everything. Was it a speaker setup or headphone setup? But of course, I love window shopping and perusing top tier systems including illustrious more familiar gear like Lampi, TD, MSB, Ares Cerat, Aqua. We are retail client forgets that most audio stores and audio distribution companies It's my understanding that the Wavedream only For example, the chassis for the products are made from North American-sourced metals, and then that is machined using Haas CNC machines that are built in California. I think is a good general rule of thumb, but there are some very transparent passive pre-amps out there. But the differences between great DACs is small. And this is what separates the very good from the excellent piece of audio equipment. I've had some excellent preamps in my system (Dartzeel, Absolare, Robert Koda, Kondo). I haven't yet come across one DAC that is best and will completely dominate other great DACs across all audio evaluation parameters. subjective to a point and that is why we do blind testing and A/B testing with Put simply, your DAC is ready for the future. The DAC has two modes; multi-bit PCM and single-bit discrete DSD mode. Sound Media Group Pty Ltd. All Rights Reserved. But if you don't, what is your reference point? This is purely speculation based on browsing the internet over the years and internalising pro/con reviews from users. More to follow. which make some people prefer this one to MSB Select II Point 85 Chord Dave and Mscaler (or Blue II transport) This one give transparent and 3D soundstage with excellent details. This puts it up against some serious competition!